synecdochic: Spider Jersualem, smoking, on his laptop (transmet - spider truth laptop)
synecdochic ([personal profile] synecdochic) wrote2008-07-20 05:52 am
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Why Monetizing Social Media Through Advertising Is Doomed To Failure (part three)

Friday we did part one of Why Monetizing Social Media Through Advertising Is Doomed To Failure: definitions, history, and background. Last night, we did part two: market forces and how they affect a social media service's operations. Again, I'd like to encourage you to read those two posts first; they lay out my premises and background information.

This morning, we're going to talk about how these market forces affect the users of a social media service, and reach my conclusion: that advertising will never work on social media as a sustainable revenue-generating strategy.

(Again, worth reiterating for those in the industry: I'm writing for a layperson, and there are lots of points I'm simplifying.)



The recap

Social media services that have fiduciary duty to outside investors, and social media services that are looking to sell to someone else before the bubble bursts, are looking to make significant profits above and beyond their operating costs, in order to appear more attractive. Most of these sites have chosen advertising as a form of capitalizing on the 90% of site visitors who never contribute and the 9% of site visitors who only contribute occasionally.

Advertising on social media, as it exists right now, is under-performing. Adblock, banner blindness, and the fact that people don't come to social media services in a frame of mind to buy things all contribute to a poor rate of return. Companies, when faced with under-performing advertising, put more and more of their effort into making their advertising perform better.

"Web 2.0", as a concept, is built on the notion of user-generated content. A service isn't selling their own content; they're selling you a home for your content, and selling other people the ability to look at your content.

Sites have two possible sources of revenue: active revenue, or the revenue that users of their site have consciously chosen to give them (subscription revenue), and passive revenue, or the revenue that they acquire from others based on the activity of their users (generally, advertising revenue).

With me so far? Okay, here we go.


Social network vs. social media

I left off yesterday saying:
An advertiser on a social media site is not buying the ability to show ads to you, the person who's creating stuff on a social media site. They're buying the ability to show ads to your readers.

This is a critical distinction, and in order to understand how this affects the users of social media sites, we need to define the difference between 'social networking site' and 'social media site', because that difference makes a big difference in the social economy of the service.

The two terms are not interchangeable, ultimately. Social networking seeks to (for the most part) replicate a person's existing social web (think of sites like Classmates.com and LinkedIn.com); its purpose is to define your ties with others. Social media takes that one step further: it seeks to create and nurture social ties to others, through the content that you provide.

If you think of a site as a game, the "winning conditions" of the game will be a good clue as to whether the site is a social networking site or a social media site. If you win the game when you collect all of your existing friends, or collect as many new friends as possible, you're on a social network. If you win the game when you provide content that's interesting enough to get other people to build relationships with you, when your social currency is the content you provide, you're on a social media site.

These are very, very, very hard terms to define empirically and not by example -- especially since most sites combine elements of both. Let's try for an example, in the hopes it might help anyone who's confused: MySpace, Facebook, and LinkedIn are social networks with social media features grafted onto them. LiveJournal, YouTube, and DeviantArt are social media sites with social networking features grafted onto them.

(To be scrupulously precise, LJ is a hybrid of social media site, social network, personal-publishing platform, and content management system -- but I digress.)

Social networks have a very low barrier to engagement: you can participate on a social network without much commitment on your part, and it doesn't take much effort from you. Ross Mayfield's Power Law of Participation covers this. Social networks are on the lower end of that curve. Social media is on the high end.


What social media sells

Why does the distinction between social network and social media matter? Because it changes the focus of what's being sold.

Social networks sell, to their advertisers, the ability to show their ads to people who are participating on the service -- which, again, can be done with a low level of engagement. Social media sites, on the other hand, are selling the ability to show ads to the people who are visiting the people who are participating on the service.

Fundamental to the social-media experience is the notion of creating. On a social media site, your social currency -- the thing that buys you power, prestige, popularity, etc -- is the content you can provide, whether that content be fiction, art, photography, essays, analysis, video, compilation services (tagging/etc), music, what-have-you. Your success or failure in the court of public opinion depends simply and solely on the content you provide. (Remember, on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.)

You can't have social media sites without media content creators. You can't have social media sites without media content consumers. The role of the social media site, at its core, is to serve as a form of matchmaker, pairing creator with consumer, making it easy for the consumer to find content they want to consume and the creator to find an audience who wants to consume their content.

When a social media service begins to rely on its passive revenue stream, though, that fundamental relationship shifts. Once this happens, the service's matchmaking role is no longer between creator and consumer. Their matchmaking role is between advertiser and creator. They are no longer providing the platform for the benefit of the creator: they are providing the platform for the benefit of the advertiser.

To a social media service that primarily relies on advertising for passive revenue generation, content creators function as editorial staff, creating the material that the service can then sell advertising space on. Under this model, any and all improvements to the service happen only to keep the content producers happy enough to keep them producing.

Social media is in the process of slipping right back to the original model of selling access to content. The only difference now is that they're not selling "access to read the content"; they're selling "access to advertise on content".

This is why advertising will never work on social media: with advertising, social media services are selling someone else's content to third parties. Welcome to Web 2.0: "you make all the content; they keep all the revenue." And for every single social media service, it will remain successful for precisely as long as the content creators don't notice.


The economy of creative work

In order to have content on the service to sell access to, a social media service needs to keep its users happy. Creative people -- the very people who are the heart and soul of social media sites, the people social media sites rely upon to produce the content that social media sites are selling access to -- are part of social economies. They believe in a free and equal exchange of value proposition, in a forms that aren't necessarily a one-to-one transaction of payment received for services provided. They believe that they should receive fair market value for their creative work; they just define it differently than a traditional corporation might.[?][?]

In order to retain that core passionate 1% of the userbase, the group of people who are going to be content providers for a social media site, that site absolutely must offer what the social economy their particular userbase has created considers "fair market value" in exchange for their creative work. This can be one of a thousand things: reliable uptime, specific features, ease of finding audience, ease of interacting with audience, etc, etc. In other words, the service needs to reward its content producers in order to keep them producing.

The thing is, every social media site's userbase-created social economy works differently. Every site's culture has built a differing set of social expectations and reward expectations. What works for one site won't work for another; the social economy that's been created on Facebook, for instance, is drastically different from the economy that's been created on LiveJournal. Every site's userbase creates its own definitions of reward.

And every site's social economy is also going to have a different level of tolerance for having their content re-sold.

A social media service that's trying to capitalize on passive revenue makes the shift from viewing its 1% of passionate users as sources for active revenue, to viewing its 1% of passionate users as content providers upon whose content the service will capitalize. The only way to keep content creators from noticing and resenting this is to make the bargain worthwhile.

There will always be individuals who resent any third-party attempt to profit from their creative work; these are the people who won't participate on a social media service at all, choosing instead to completely own the method of their own production. There'll always be individuals who don't care at all, and will happily continue using the service as long as the service exists. These two groups are outliers. The majority of people are in the middle somewhere: they'll continue using the service as long as they get fair market value in exchange for providing their content for the site to capitalize upon (however that site's culture defines 'fair market value'). As soon as they feel they're no longer receiving fair market value, they'll take themselves -- and their content -- elsewhere.

This starts a vicious downward spiral. As members of that core passionate group begin to become disillusioned, they stop using the service. This, in turn, means that there's less content on the service, both new content and older content (as people delete their old content, delete their accounts, etc). As this begins to happen, the number of pageviews and unique visitors the service can offer their advertisers begins to drop, which makes their passive revenue drop. (It also makes their active revenue drop, too, because remember: the core 1% of the userbase that are likely to be contributing content are also the core people who are likely to be giving the site money directly.)

This, in turn, means that the service -- to meet its revenue goals -- must bring in more money. Because the majority of their development effort is going to advertising-related issues, they have fewer resources to devote to improving the service, adding new features, and otherwise paying into the social economy and providing their core userbase with fair market value. Because their pageviews are dropping, they have to make up for it by adding more ads. Because of ad exhaustion, banner blindness, and targeting problems, the price that they can charge advertisers for running those ads will drop.

This, in turn, enrages and upsets the users even further. Each change in the service's advertising policy will make more people step and say "no, this is past my line, I'm leaving." This makes pageviews and passive revenue drop further, which lowers the amount of money a site can charge for advertising even more.

As the creators of content leave a service, the service must add more and more advertising to meet their passive revenue goals. As the service adds more advertising, the quality of that advertising decreases, and the user experience gets worse and worse. As the user experience gets worse, more creators of content will leave the service, and the cycle keeps going downward.

This is bad for the service: it means that they can't meet their revenue goals and can't retain users. This is bad for the user: it means they're losing the audience and the social connections that originally lured them to the service. This is bad for the advertiser: it means that their ads have less of an audience, and the audience that their ads are being shown to are less interested in them.


The long dark road to cat macros

If that alone were the only problem social media sites were facing in their relationship with advertising, it would be bad enough. It's not the only problem, though. The problem is that very few of the people who are growing disillusioned and leaving are doing so quietly.

In a model where a service combines active revenue with passive revenue, most people have a sliding-scale level of reaction to knowing that a third party (the social media service) is profiting on their created content:
  1. "Hey, they work hard to provide me a service I find valuable; I don't mind them profiting from it. I'll keep paying them."

  2. "I'm a little uncomfortable with the implications of this, so I'm going to stop actively paying them, but I find the service valuable enough that I'm not going to stop using it."

  3. "I'm not okay with other people profiting off my creative work. I'm going to stop paying them and remove all my old content so they can't profit from it any longer."

  4. "I'm so not okay with this that I'm not only withdrawing all my support and all my content, I'm going to get everyone I know to do the same."

Level 1 reactions are the type you get from passionate evangelists of a service, product, or company. They take every chance possible to lure others into the service, to provide content for the service, to contribute to the service's active revenue stream, etc. They'll defend the service at every opportunity, and try to convince people who have other reactions that those reactions are unreasonable or silly.

Level 2 reactions tend to be the type you get either from people whose attention was never caught by the service -- the 9% who were only occasional contributors -- or the people who used to be level-one type evangelists and burned out. Their attitude can be summed up as, most succinctly, "Who cares?" They're not going to subscribe to the site, purchase services, or otherwise contribute to the active revenue stream, but to a site, they're often indistinguishable from the people who wouldn't have contributed to the active revenue stream anyway. Still, the site can notice that this is happening by watching their active revenue stream; when it starts dropping, there's a good chance this sort of reaction is coming into play.

Level 3 reactions come gradually, and are often also indistinguishable from the general drift-away that all social media services inherently experience as people's priorities change. A site can see that this is happening by watching their active usage numbers; if fewer and fewer people are contributing to the service, it may be a key indicator that the service is failing to deliver fair market value.

There is absolutely, inherently, and vociferously no way possible to miss a Level 4 reaction. And when it happens as a response to a specific major incident, with multiple people hitting Level 4 all at once, people had better duck and cover.

A perfect example of this is Facebook's Beacon: a service that seeks to capture as much data as possible about the user in order to provide perfectly-targeted advertising, while at the same time seeking to provide the user with enough value to make using the service compelling. Beacon does what online advertisers have been doing since the dawn of ads on the internet: it tracks your actions on multiple sites and sends that data back to Facebook, to allow Facebook to micro-target which ads are shown to whom.

When it launched, it was the shot fired around the Internet. And it demonstrates exactly what happens when a service gets passive revenue collection wrong: the consumer marketplace, particularly the core passionate-user marketplace, discourages it. Swiftly, strongly, and with a boot to the head. (And cat macros.)

People who have level 4 reactions are almost universally former level-one evangelists, who feel betrayed by a choice the company has made. Post-Beacon, the loudest Facebook detractors were not the people who never really cared about the site much at all, but the people who were former users and genuinely furious about the privacy concerns inherent in Beacon. And advertisers -- and the people who run the internet advertising industry -- notice. [?]

Wall Street is terrified of advertising on social media. This is part of the reason why: because people who feel that their work is being exploited will stop at nothing to make their displeasure known to as many people as possible. The tendency, for advertisers, is to view this behavior somewhat akin to monkeys flinging poo. "Why should we advertise somewhere people hate ads so much?" they want to know.

This is bad for the service: they gain a poor reputation among advertisers and users alike. This is bad for the users: they feel betrayed, and lose a service that they previously believed in. This is bad for the advertisers: they are paying to advertise somewhere that their advertising will earn them considerable ire.


The problem of editorial control

The other reason Wall Street is terrified of advertising on social media, of course, is the question of content appropriateness and editorial control.

Social media is the only place that this is an issue. For the most part, elsewhere on the Internet, advertisers are guaranteed some level of content appropriateness; they can view the site, see the context in which their ads will appear, and be reasonably comfortable that they aren't going to appear alongside content or opinions that the company doesn't want to support -- whatever that content or opinion might be. A company who agrees to advertise on a sex toy shop, for instance, can be reasonably guaranteed that their ads will be shown alongside, well, sex toys.

Social media, on the other hand, is a free-for-all. Social media services cannot guarantee their advertisers any level of content appropriateness without placing some sort of restriction on what sort of content their users can create -- either by sanitizing the service to the level that advertisers find appropriate, or by implementing some way of filtering content and allowing advertisers to say "don't put my ad on anything that contains this, this, or this".

This, of course, makes users upset, because it drives home to them the fact that they are, in the company's eyes, unpaid content creators. The minute a site puts any form of restriction on what kind of content a user can upload -- whether that site accepts advertising or not -- it will lose the people who would be likely to create that content. (Whether or not this is always a bad thing is left as an exercise for the reader.) The minute a site that accepts advertising puts any form of restriction on what kind of content a user can upload, though, the user will assume that content restriction has something to do with the presence of advertisers being unwilling to appear beside that advertising.

The presence of advertising on a site means that any restriction on content is going to be interpreted, by the userbase, as being a restriction motivated by the needs of the advertiser. It doesn't matter what the real motivation for that content restriction is.

Content producers -- users -- on social media services don't explicitly sign up to produce content for the service to capitalize on. They sign up to utilize or receive the service that the social media site provides. They are willing, to an extent, to have that content capitalized upon, in exchange for the service they receive -- it's that social economy thing again. But the minute the service explicitly calls users' attention to the fact that they are functioning as unpaid content creators, and makes users feel as though there is any sort of content restriction in place, there's a huge psychological shift that will, in many cases, trigger a shift in the attitude towards having their content re-sold.

This is bad for the service: it puts them in a place of having to balance screening content for appropriateness vs. not losing advertisers, makes them have to justify the content on their service to their advertisers, and makes their userbase distrust their motives every time they have to place any restriction on content at all. This is bad for the users: it means that they lose the ability to produce certain content, and makes them consciously aware of the fact that the social media service views them as a cash cow. This is bad for the advertisers: it means that they are advertising somewhere where, at any second, their ad can appear somewhere they really don't want it to appear.


Can it ever work?

Is it possible for a social media site to implement advertising in a way that doesn't drive away its core participants?

Behavioral economics indicate that advertising is only likely to work on a social media site if the site manages to deliver an advertising model where:
  1. advertising is unobtrusive, gentle, and respectful;
  2. people feel like the advertising is relevant to them;
  3. people feel like they get value from the advertising;
  4. people feel like the service owners make choices for them first, not advertisers first;
  5. people do not feel like they are being exploited, monetized, turned into commodities, or in any way, shape, or form being used primarily to generate revenue for the company without receiving fair market value.

And if a site fails on elements 1-4 of this list, the users will feel uncomfortable, and will generally either ignore the situation or express their discontent politely (if firmly). When a site fails on #5, though, someone had better get an umbrella, because the poo-flinging is about to start.

The minute a site makes its users feel like they aren't the primary focus or concern, the minute a social media site calls attention to the fact that the site is capitalizing on its users' creative effort, each individual user is going to consciously examine the transactional benefit they're obtaining in exchange for providing that content.

In order for a social media service to succeed at advertising, they need to do something that I don't think a lot of services are doing: they need to carefully examine the social economy of their service. The people who are making the decisions about what ad products to introduce on the service need to understand, completely and thoroughly, what it is that their content creators want -- and then they need to deliver it. To avoid driving away their content creators and reducing the amount of content they have available to sell, social media sites are going to have to start caring a hell of a lot more about delivering fair market value -- however their particular service's users have come to define 'fair market value'.

In order for advertising on social media to be successful from an advertiser's point of view, those advertisers are going to have to be willing to redefine 'success'. Social media is bad for call-to-action campaigns, because people aren't there to click on advertising. Where social media can offer advertisers value is as a place to raise brand awareness and a place to put businesses in touch with customers directly. (As the Cluetrain Manifesto so pithily put it: Markets are conversations.) But those sorts of campaigns can't be measured by immediate numbers; advertisers are going to have to be willing to take the long view.

These necessary conditions are hard. More than that, though, they're long-term, and they are unique. Every site's solution is going to look different, and what works for one social media service isn't going to work for the next.

Eventually, I believe the bubble is going to burst. And much like Web 2.0 rose from the ashes of Bubble 1.0, something else is going to show up to replace it.

Until then, when you join a new social media service, ask yourself: where's your line, and what will you do when that service crosses it?


[ Part one | Part two | Part three ]
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[identity profile] rigel-7.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 10:41 am (UTC)(link)
A most interesting read through :D (I was pointed here via [livejournal.com profile] rydra_wong) Especially the link on the last post to the study done on how people have trained their gaze to actually ignore anything even vaguely ad-like.

I think it's also important for a social networking site to have an 'opt out' tier for ads. It's a large part of the reason that I have my paid account here on LJ - my virulent dislike of anything cluttering my pageview that I haven't explicitly agreed to have put there. :P I'll happily fork over my hard earned dosh so that I can exercise my own personal control over my content.

[identity profile] buddleia.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 11:17 am (UTC)(link)
Obviously, I find it hard to read this without thinking of lj and its various palavers, good and bad, with fen and fanfic producers. I'm glad you added outside context as well, and certainly I remember all the mess with Facebook. Is it appropriate to mention the loyalty to their own networks that people have in terms of the 'sliding scale of reactions to knowing content is being profited from'? I do think a great deal of the ire raised here is counteracted by the difficulty of just upping sticks to another platform provider with all connections in place. It might be considered inertia by some.

One more time: bloody good reading, thank you for writing this.

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[identity profile] kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 11:30 am (UTC)(link)
These posts have been really interesting. Thanks for writing it all up.

[identity profile] princessofg.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 12:16 pm (UTC)(link)
thank you for highlighting what I think many newbies to the net really don't get at all: That in the Web 2.0 environment, there are multiple classes of users. All users are not created equal. And if you lump your free content providers in with your regular readers, and fail to consider the role each plays in the ecosystem, you can end up making some really bad decisions.

because Web 2.0 is all about the average person generating the content, advertisers are very uneasy, as you've said. Old Media, like TV and newspapers, had the same issues of advertiser pressure and taste, and the economic pressures and audience concerns were still there, but there were people in the hierarchy the advertisers could deal with. With user generated content, they have no control at all.

Thanks again; this is very interesting. Lots of recent history makes a lot of sense when viewed through your lens

Do you think in general the owners of the various social media sites understand the importance of catering to their voluntary content providers these days, or have they all basically sold out to the advertising dollar in hopes of profiting from this current bubble before it bursts?

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[identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 12:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you very much for this.

*goes off to advertise your essays*

I have recently started listening a lot to blogtalkradio (http://www.blogtalkradio.com), and some of the broadcasters have sponsors. They recommend products, and if it's a sponsored product, they get paid for recommending the product. I've also noticed, though, that a lot of broadcasters will recommend products for which they receive absolutely no revenue; they just like the product and they want to tell people about it. Maybe this is the way to go for advertisers on social media sites? People on social media sites do, after all, a lot of reccing already, although (in my experience of LJ) this is mostly reccing 'free' items, such as fics. However, people do frequently rec products, e.g. you recced Scrivener once and I ended up buying it.

If network providers could harness that kind of recommendation dynamic, that might be an option. Perhaps?

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[identity profile] mecurtin.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 12:34 pm (UTC)(link)
The people who are making the decisions about what ad products to introduce on the service need to understand, completely and thoroughly, what it is that their content creators want -- and then they need to deliver it.

I really don't see how this is possible once they've accepted venture capital. Not to mention that in my experience anyone who calls himself an "entrepreneur" is likely to be temperamentally unsuited to careful and thorough understanding.

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[identity profile] nancylebov.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 01:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for writing this. It's fascinating. Where do you find the energy?

What happens if you tweak "they keep all the money" and give content providers a cut of the ad revenue? I'm not sure that it would work-- it's plausible that people will do things for free but feel underpaid if they get a small amount of money.

There's a bit in First Lensman (http://www.amazon.com/First-Lensman-Book-2/dp/1882968107/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216559217&sr=8-2) about aliens ignoring advertising just as thoroughly as humans do.
rydra_wong: Lee Miller photo showing two women wearing metal fire masks in England during WWII. (Default)

[personal profile] rydra_wong 2008-07-20 01:25 pm (UTC)(link)
What happens if you tweak "they keep all the money" and give content providers a cut of the ad revenue? I'm not sure that it would work-- it's plausible that people will do things for free but feel underpaid if they get a small amount of money.

IIRC, this came up when LJ was floating suggestions along those lines -- one problem is that a lot of people are providing content for which they can't accept money: e.g. if fanfic writers make money for it, they potentially become much more of a a target for lawsuits.

Plus you get into even more messy issues -- if person X has a huge flist, should they get more of a cut than person Y who doesn't post at all? Does it undermine people's cred if they're seen to be posting more in order to get a higher cut?

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[identity profile] anatsuno.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 01:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I think there's no need to rely on the expression 'fair market value' when you then need to restrict it to unique conditions as you (aptly and necessarily) do: just remove 'market'. In many places throughout, fair value would be enough, since 'market value' is inherently understood to pertain to a wide space ('the market' - always singular, even when its boundaries are on the smaller side). Here what you want to point out is justly that instead of trying to provide fair market value, services should understand that their unique conditions form A unique market, and that 'fair market value' needs to mean 'fair value for this unique service's market' and not be a reflection of the normalized wider notion of, say, 'fair market value on the internet' or even 'fair market value for social media services in general'; they need to let go that too-wide notion and focus on getting fair value to this/their public, period. Seems to me it'd be easier to read that way. /late nitpick

Awesome read, obviously! I can't wait to see how it ripples out. :D

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[identity profile] emgeetrek.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 01:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Fascinating. Don't know why, but I started thinking about Amazon.com--which is definitely a retail outlet, but which also has incorporated various social media features. Author blogs; readers' booklists; and even some chat services, I think. Yes, all there in the hope that their presence will sell product, but I wonder how many people who go to the site do so at least in part to interact with others who enjoy the same sorts of books they like--to read their recommendations and even respond to them, in recs of their own that look, sometimes, like the sort of "I agree with you, I don't agree and here's why" discourse we get on LJ.

Amazon is a very interesting study; it didn't make a profit for years and years and years, and all the while Jeff Bezos was carefully and steadfastly holding off the sharks, saying, "You knew there wouldn't be profit for a very long time, because it was all laid out in my business plan." And now, the way all roads lead to Google, they all lead to Amazon, too.

[identity profile] truwest.livejournal.com 2008-07-21 03:52 am (UTC)(link)
Well, Amazon makes its money selling stuff; it's not primarily/exclusively a Web 2.0/social networking site (altho as you say, it has added various social/user components). So we can't really compare the two, in terms of revenue models.

It's like the difference between a restaurant vs a group of friends who have a potluck supper club. Both involve people sharing a meal, but one's at heart a business, and the other is at heart a social group.

I think synecdochic's fundamental point is that web 2.0/social sites are at their heart a social group/social dynamic -- and businesses are trying to find a model by which to make $$ from them -- but there are fundamental contradictions between the world of business and the world of social groups/connections, which causes challenges with monetization.

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[identity profile] emgeetrek.livejournal.com - 2008-07-21 07:20 (UTC) - Expand

How about communities?

[identity profile] griffen.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 03:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I may be up for stoning from the general LJ community for suggesting this, but after reading your three articles, I noticed two things:

1. The knitting/fiber site apparently does very well with its passive revenue stream.

2. Advertisers like targeted advertising.

The main objection I've heard on LJ to advertising is "I don't want my personal journal cluttered up with ads!" I think that's a fair objection, one that LJ should be taking far more seriously than it does. It's mostly "I don't want it on my own journal or on my friends list." And the biggest problem for advertisers is that LJ users are a pretty diverse and varied group of people, and hard to target-market to.

But LJ does have a particular tier of people that are much easier to create targeted advertising for: communities.

Perhaps LJ should look into a re-structuring of the tiers. Personal journals are ad-free. Community journals, on the other hand, provide LJ and its advertisers with a targeted community. Perhaps community journals should be the ones generating passive advertising revenue. I think this makes more sense than just trying to advertise to all LJ users all the time, because people in communities may be looking for a fizzgig or a whatchamacallit and come to that community to say "Where can I find a fizzgig or a whatchamacallit?" If they post something like that, not only do they get feedback from the community, but a targeted ad can pop up after they post so they can click through and find the best deals on fizzigs or whatchamacallits. That's useful. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a cooking community and had someone say "Where can I find bran flour/seitan/curry mixes/a good colander/etc?" In short, people in communities are already looking for specialized knowledge about a specialized (targeted!) topic.

In order for this to keep most of the users here happy, community posts on friends lists would not show ads on the friends-list view, but the moment a person clicks through to comment or read comments, the ads would show up. This also gives advertisers reasons to work with CPM instead of CPC: a person clicking through to the community would probably be more likely to click through on an ad than a passive random viewer of the ad.

Any thoughts? I'm sure there's holes in my thinking (not to mention quite a few people who will HATE this idea) but it might be a way to adapt post-Web 2.0 to LiveJournal, specifically.

Also, thank you for clearing up why I don't like MySpace apart from the ads. I want a social media site, not a social networking site. The networking sites fall flat for me, while I love playing on LJ and on deviantArt.
ext_22: Pretty girl with a gele on (Default)

Re: How about communities?

[identity profile] quivo.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 05:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Charging for making/maintaining communities would probably kill off the 'just for fun' or 'i want to put my fanfic/vids/pics/manips somewhere central' uses that communities lend themselves to, though. And when people say they don't want ads on their journal or flist, that generally extends to the communities they interact with as well, whether that includes ads on one's flist or ads on the community page in particular. For another kind of site, say a Lego enthusiast site or a mobile reading site where people participating are likely to want helpful links to stuff related to their hobby or passion, spending effort to tailor ads to the users of the site makes sense.

For LJ, where communities can be made for really any purpose entirely, it would probably cost more to try and do that kind of ad targeting, and it would piss off users to boot. And it doesn't offer any solution to the phenomenon where people don't SEE anything that looks like an ad. For every one person that might find the change useful, you'd have a bunch of people who disliked it in various degrees and a bunch of people who just never notice it because they've trained themselves out of seeing ads or they have adblock or whatnot.

[identity profile] mskala.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 05:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Lots of good points in these articles. Something I'd want to emphasize is that the "fair market value" for content creators doesn't even have to be measured in dollars, and that may provide a way for site operators and content creators to co-exist. I'm happy for them to make money and keep it all, if they give me what I really want, which isn't money. It isn't just about who gets the money, there's other value to be divided as well.

I can be (used to be, on Livejournal; am, in some other venues) one of the content-creating participants at the tip of the pyramid. I think that's worth money, but money isn't the reward I want for it. What I really want is to be recognized and respected as one of those content creators, by the other people of that kind. Livejournal can't tell users whom they ought to recognize and respect, but anything they could do to help my achieve my goals would make up for a lot of "monetization." Something like the existing "spotlight" feature, if it had been designed and introduced in a much different way (too late to fix it now, I think) might have helped. Anything that not only recognized my readers as mine rather than Livejournal's, but that could have helped me earn more readers, would have been welcome.

It probably is too late now. I'm in the process of your reaction #3 - pulling all my old content from Livejournal. I already stopped updating a couple years ago. My new content goes on my own Web site, which I pay for, and that's a bit of a disappointment - but what disappoints me is the smaller potential readership, not the cost of hosting. It's all about getting readers, not about making or saving money.

The bottom line: paying me fair market value doesn't have to mean paying me with dollars.
ext_22: Pretty girl with a gele on (Default)

[identity profile] quivo.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 07:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Firstly, I love this post series SO MUCH. You're right, this Web 2.0 thing is a bubble, and it makes me twitchy for my favourite sites when I think about how the collapse of the bubble might affect them. On the one hand, you have sites like Twitter where they're having serious scalability problems and seem to have no idea for actually making money in sight. Sites like that are obviously going to take a very deep fall if they haven't got a game plan that works together when things come crashing down. And then you've got stuff like Flickr that can disappear despite how hard they've worked to keep their heads above water. I almost want to hide my head in the sand and emerge when the storm's passed, and THEN sign up and utilise whatever services are left over.

You know what really fascinates me about this, though? I think you've said three times upthread that we as users simply do not have the same goals as advertisers, and still people keep wondering why stuff like affiliate programs for iTunes and Amazon aren't desirable to social media sites looking to make money on advertising.
ext_3468: Quark with a tribble on his head (Default)

[identity profile] admiralmemo.livejournal.com 2008-07-20 08:50 pm (UTC)(link)
This is all great stuff and helped me understand the cogs of this great Internet machine. :-)
lapillus: (Default)

[personal profile] lapillus 2008-07-20 11:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I haven't (yet) looked into most of your links yet so it may very well be addressed there, but one of the multitude of things that both social media and social networking sites aren't considering is the desired level of privacy the use of their particular site is likely to imply and its relation to targeted marketing. I'm much less likely to feel threatened by someone tracking the fact that I'm interested ethically sourced fabrics on a sewing-centric site than I am a site where I'm either there because of my interest in medical problem or where I feel to kick back and talk about a wedding one day and post same-sex incestuous fanficion. I think, therefore, that social sites of whatever ilk need to be particularly careful in indiviudally targeted ads if they are involved in medical, religious, financial or sexual things, either primarily (say a site on ALS or, Judaism, or debt relief ) or secondarily as with LJ where lots of folks talk about some or all of those things (sometimes in the same post) and that in some of those cases it may make it impossible for any advertising to fit your first criteria for some largish portion of your readership.

I suspect that there is simply something distasteful in realizing that your hard work, or your heartbreak, or your gift to friends is someone else's get rich quick scheme.
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[identity profile] vito-excalibur.livejournal.com 2008-07-21 01:29 am (UTC)(link)
Fascinating read. Thanks for putting it up.
ext_2356: Water Ribbon (Default)

[identity profile] dunv-i.livejournal.com 2008-07-21 03:59 am (UTC)(link)
I think it's interesting that you think the 'most of the time I don't care, so long as you don't truly screw up' group is the most common - I don't necessarily disagree, particularly for LiveJournal, but on Facebook, my experience has been a very 'I love this service and will use it no matter what - Beacon? Pshaw, who cares?'

Really interesting. Really thinky-inducing. Thanks.

Thanks also for answering my question yesterday... I suppose I should have been more patient - a lot of what you said today could have possibly answered for me, so thanks.
lapillus: (Default)

[personal profile] lapillus 2008-07-21 06:15 am (UTC)(link)
I wonder if a larger portion of the Facebook userbase has given up the notion that one can really retain data/usage privacy (or haven't been out in the wider world enough to care about the value) but if there are other areas that would constitute a true screw up for them (that perhaps lj users would just shrug off.)

[identity profile] dangerousedge.livejournal.com 2008-07-21 11:40 am (UTC)(link)
Bravo!

http://dangerousedge.livejournal.com/290487.html

[identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com 2008-07-21 03:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't necessarily believe *everything* I read in the paper, so I'm offering this as something stated rather than for the truth of the statement, but the business section in today's NYTimes has an article about Arnold Kim, MD, who started the MacRumors.com blog and has decided that he can make more money blogging than being a nephrologist. When asked how the !@#$#% he makes money blogging, he said it boils down to "one simple accomplishment: building traffic. That's it. If you have a site that attracts a lot of visitors, you will be able to make money. On the Internet, traffic equals power, which subsequently equals money."

That's on the front page of the business section, on p. 4it says that for about three years, MacRumors has returned substantial profits "through a combination of Google text advertising, banner ads and commissions on product sales."
sethg: (Default)

[personal profile] sethg 2008-07-21 04:12 pm (UTC)(link)
ISTM that bloggers that focus on technical topics have two advantages:

(1) They are blogging about topics that advertisers want to buy keywords for and that their readers are likely to click on ads for ("oh, look, a case for my new iWidget").

(2) They are technically savvy enough that they don't have to depend on middlemen taking massive cuts of their ad revenue.

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[identity profile] holli.livejournal.com - 2008-07-22 04:17 (UTC) - Expand
sethg: (Default)

[personal profile] sethg 2008-07-21 04:05 pm (UTC)(link)
[got here via [livejournal.com profile] nancylebov]

Thanks for posting this. When some of my lj-friends were talking about the (first) conflict between fanfic communities and the LJ administration, I had a gut reaction along the lines of "the management has written checks to the venture capitalists that the users don't want to cash". So I am grateful that someone has taken the time and energy to explain in detail why I am right. :-)

How does the cost of exit figure into all this? I mean, I run my personal blog on a virtual host that costs me $20/month; if I just wanted a host for a low-traffic blog, I could get one for less than a third of that--and if I were the kind of popular user valuable to LJ's advertisers, then I could get my own Google ad account and use it to defray the cost of my own blog. But an LJ user contemplating a similar switch would have to weigh the cost of losing the "friends"-related features of LJ, and the additional administrative headaches (possibly requiring some Unix-fu to get everything set up, dealing with "you have exceeded your available bandwidth" messages from the host, etc.).

[identity profile] demotu.livejournal.com 2008-07-21 04:09 pm (UTC)(link)
As a layperson - your intended audience - I really enjoyed reading this, and found it very informative. It confirmed a lot of things I've been thinking for the past couple of years - mostly summed up by "how the fuck is there all this free stuff on the internet, supported only by advertising, which I never, ever, ever pay attention to or click on?" - and brought up some new things I hadn't considered.

I was wondering - you have a couple overall statements, here. First, that social media supported only by advertising is heading towards an implosion, and second (not that you dwell on it), that subscription-only services don't work because people aren't willing to pay for things on the net.

I'm wondering how this reflects on your work at dreamwidth. I've been following it a bit, and I know you're attempting to keep it free of advertising (particularly on people's journals and communities), and thus run it on the money you get from subscriptions. How does this work with the second half of the statement? I know you've said you've run the numbers for ever scenario, including high costs and low numbers of paying users, and you come out in the black in all cases. Is this because you aren't accepting venture capital - and thus don't have to immediately turn over high profits for their benefit - and aren't, also, looking to inflate your revenue to "sell to google", as it were? Because it does seem to contradict your statement that subscription only also doesn't work.

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[identity profile] demotu.livejournal.com - 2008-07-23 17:31 (UTC) - Expand

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[identity profile] admiralmemo.livejournal.com - 2008-08-18 04:15 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] lavendertook.livejournal.com 2008-07-21 04:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for such crisp writing!

So when the 2.0 bubble bursts, what happens? Do the social media sites go poof, live gj? Could they also disappear, with all our data? Or will they move to smaller sites?

Can social media sites of a certain size remain sustainable to provide enough income to live on for a few people maintaining them once the investors figure out that there is no great economic profit to be made here?

[identity profile] hyounpark.livejournal.com 2008-07-22 03:02 am (UTC)(link)
You sound like there's this bizarre concept that advertising should actually complement and support the media that it accompanies, rather than simply intrude on the space where the media resides. How bizarre...Or how Web 2.0.

However, as inflated as the click prices seem, there's also the issue that they've replaced TV ads and publication ads that are far more expensive in terms of impressions per conversion. That's why the newspapers are dying; they're even more expensive than the internet bubble. Ads have always been about finding the 1% of users who are dumb enough to convert advertisements into buying decisions because that's what ends up working as a scalable model that is worth investment.

On a firm level, I think that individual firms can find the type of alignment that allows them to truly target their user base and provide value-added services as marketing efforts. However, the difficulty in defeating this paradigm on an industry or society-wide scale is to find a scalable model that provides for social marketing and advertising in an end-user acceptable manner. That's why Google is so profitable; it comes closer to doing this than any other service out there. As ridiculous as it seems, Google is a bargain for the value it provides.

I'm not sure there's a bubble as much as a poor definition of social media. Eventually, social media will support every type of communicative endeavor. It'll be like having a trade magazine or a TV network; something that can be assumed rather than any sort of special effort. As it is commoditized and utilized, social media will reach its true potential. And the secret is more than out at this point that venture capital or angel investment in social media is a fool's errand if you go to entrepreneurial forums. I'd be amazed to ever see any significant funding go towards social media at this point; the money has moved on to collaboration tools.

Eh, I could go on for hours about this. ;)

Marketingly,
Hyoun
lapillus: (Default)

[personal profile] lapillus 2008-07-23 06:12 am (UTC)(link)
the money has moved on to collaboration tools.

Although I'd think monetizing collaboration tools faces much the same set of problems: folks don't want to pay for things on the internet and ads won't work due to ad-blindness and the desire not to be distracted from why you came to the website, which with collaboration I'd think seldom has to do with purchasing anything.

[identity profile] auberryroad.livejournal.com 2008-07-23 07:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Great series of posts! This has been a really fascinating read. I used to work for an internet marketing company that focused a lot on advertising through social media and networking sites (although they were all referred to under the name social media - I think they might have benefited from following your differing definitions), and it was always something that made me secretly sort of snarly. At one point we had to anonymously write down our personal definition of social media marketing and turn it in to be used in a presentation; my definition was put up as the more cynical view on things, as I'd said it was co-opting a space that people use for fun and using it to try and sell people things there.

My old boss (this guy (http://anonym.to/?http://www.conversationmarketing.com)) used an approach he called conversation marketing. The dream was to have campaigns go viral; when we had something new going on, a flurry of office activity followed in which we had to create a Facebook page for the whatever it was, Digg it, StumbleUpon it, del.icio.us it, create videos about it to put up on YouTube, link to the whatever on our own Facebook pages and blogs, create a MySpace page for it, create a blog about it etc. on and on endlessly. In my year of working there, I don't think I ever saw anything manage to really take off. While it's an interesting idea to marry content and advertising, it's difficult to do well, and sometimes those goals are impossible to reach (real life example: no one wants to read a blog about heated pet beds).

All of which is a long way of saying yep, current ideas are flawed, and I too am interested in seeing what advertisers and marketers come up with next. Thanks for this. :)

[identity profile] mercuriosity.livejournal.com 2008-07-28 08:48 am (UTC)(link)
I really enjoyed reading this series of posts. It was easy to follow and gave me some stuff to think about. Thanks for writing and sharing it! :)

[identity profile] stardust9121.livejournal.com 2008-08-15 03:04 am (UTC)(link)
I know I'm late to the game here, but I was just linked over from the most recent LJ2008 post on Basic Accounts.

Thank you so much for writing this series; it was very clearly and smartly laid-out. It put into words a lot of the uneasiness I've been feeling lately about where many sites are headed, even the ones that have generally been pretty savvy in the past. Some major sites are starting to feel like they're being run with the same mentality as old media executives; that is, clutching onto an old revenue model and trying to squeeze it for every cent it's worth while failing to pay attention to the actual audience/user base anymore. The users get screwed in the short term but the company gets screwed in the long term. I hadn't really seen much discussion describing the current situaion as a bubble, but when you frame it in that way it's a pretty strong argument.

And I do think that from an outside persepctive LJ is a fascinating place right now as a sort of petri dish of every single one of these issues, even while as a user I'm just stuck in this permanent mix of concern/frustration. [I'm not quite sure what my breaking poing here is, although I know what it is on other sites - had Facebook followed through on Beacon that would have been it, for example, and other recent changes there are driving me closer. Twitter's instability, and the sense that it's both SO "Web 2.0" and so hyped as the Hot New Thing that it'll crash and burn, are preventing me from even joining in the first place.] I think I'm *much* more invested in LJ since so much of my own content is here and also because of my small circle of friends who would probably have to leave with me for me to quit. So I'm both less likely to leave or quit contributing *and* more likely to respond negatively to any crossing of personal lines.

I've made several comments to LJ that a) neither I nor my friends are even seeing any of the ads there (thank you Firefox) and that b) I do not currently have the kind of incentive I need to upgrade to Paid/Permanent, although I've been seriously considering it.

Hasn't even Google said recently that their current methods of advertising are not going to cut it for much longer?

Your work with Dreamwidth looks really interesting! I'll definitely keep following it.

Thanks again for this fascinating series of posts from this layperson. :)

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